CONTRIBUTOR SPOTLIGHT:
INTERVIEW WITH JEFF DINGLER

Photo Credit: Allan Mestel

Rappahannock Review Poetry Editors: “Letter to Jonah on the Border” in its free verse form has many italicized offset lines that seem to come from voices other than the speaker’s. Can you tell us more about how you chose to incorporate multiple voices and how you approached presenting those on the page.

Jeff Dingler: I wanted the reader to experience the freneticism of the US-Mexican border, a clash of languages, cultures, people, policies, and willpowers. As a writer and storyteller, I’m obsessed with how voice affects not only the written or spoken language but also the narrative—the way the story is told. If you travel to the border today, you will hear a thousand different micro-stories about what is going on, a thousand different experiences. It would’ve been impossible to write this poem and not include some of the stories I heard (and all the voices are based on real people).

I’m also a classically trained musician who loves the Baroque period, loves polyphonic music with all those overlapping voices. When you add multiple voices to anything, it kind of supercharges the work and gives it this complexity and multifacetedness that is hard to replicate otherwise.

How and where I placed these voice snippets in the poem was less logical, more so based on flow and balance and counterbalance with the main voice. Some found their place immediately and others had to move around some before settling in around the central monologic column.

RR: We love the liminality in this poem, in images of fathering a book, a baby, the promise of a new life for a refugee. Do you feel there is some special opportunity or power in that which is yet to be manifested?

JD: I don’t know if I’ve thought about it that way before, but “opportunity for power” is certainly a way to look at it. There’s a lot of freedom in gray areas or liminal spaces—as a creative person, I’m kind of fascinated by what can be accomplished when a moment or piece of dialogue or even a whole poem (like this one) can straddle multiple emotions or layers of interpretation. For instance, I love in a movie or book when I don’t know if I’m supposed to laugh or cry or both. I love when I find myself empathizing with or rooting for the “antagonist.” Life is filled with this wonderful expressive dimorphism. To deny it or section it off seems like a mistake.

RR: In exploring more of your work, we found that on top of writing poetry, you’re a novelist, journalist and prolific essayist. Can you give us a peek into your process or strategies for producing work across genres?

JD: It’s certainly an excellent question, and I’m not certain I have a good answer, other than to say that every piece (whether a one-hundred-word magazine blurb or a twenty-page short story) is an individual. Some pieces will get published because you have a writing job and have no choice but to produce an editorial or review or op-ed, others because you submitted them at a timely moment or found a timely “news peg” to attach (many of my “literary” essays wound up in mainstream magazines because of a news peg), and others will find a home through a lot of revision or re-imagining. Several cut sections from the novel I’ve written have been published as standalone pieces (a lot of the language in “Letter to Jonah” is from the book). Certainly rely on your writer’s tool belt and intuition, but you ought to approach every piece individually and be open and flexible with how it might find its way into the world.

RR: You explore a variety of topics from the use of psychedelics to your relationship with your parents with a remarkable vulnerability that is refreshing and magnetic. How do you maintain this transparency and vulnerability in your work?

JD: Another good question and the disappointing answer is this is just part of who I am, as a person and a writer. It’s difficult for me to hold back what I’m thinking and feeling, which results in some intense moodiness (especially around the Holidays, hah). I also have a background in acting and music (I used to joke that I’m a jack of all poorly-paid trades) and so I know when one gets onstage (or in front of the page) there is no holding back—it’s a terrible mistake to hold back, really in anything in life. Make it big, make it grand and over the top. There is no tomorrow performance guaranteed. So what choice do we have as entertainers and performers but to expose ourselves—the very nature of what we do is exposing ourselves. Being vulnerable is like being paid to bleed. Some might say that writing isn’t very good pay—but I used to donate plasma during grad school, so I’ve bled for less.

RR: We read you’re working on a new novel called Mother of Exiles. Would you tell us more about this new project or something else you’re creating?

JD: Mother of Exiles is a multi-voiced narrative about detention-deportation in the United States. It follows a real group of immigration activists known as Witnesses who are attempting, through nonviolent protest, to close down a camp for migrant minors in Florida. It all started with a piece I broke in the Washington Post about the founder of the Witnesses, a man who drove from New York to West Texas to hold a months-long vigil in front of one of these migrant detention centers, which are really prison camps. And what was going on years ago under Trump is going on today under Biden. The Witnesses inspired many of us to believe that “seeing is subversive.”

I began writing the book in September 2019 and finished it earlier this year. The first chapter was recently published in Big Bend Literary Magazine, and a second chapter is forthcoming in Canyon Voices. The novel was also named runner-up in The Writers College’s 2021 Global Novel Writing Competition and a standalone chapter recently won second place in the international Creators of Justice Literary Awards. The book hasn’t found a publisher yet but it will find its way into the world one way or the other because it (and I) have no other choice.

 


Read “Letter to Jonah on the Border” by Jeff Dingler in Issue 11.1.

Jeff Dingler

Letter to Jonah on the Border

       For five days the river kept me down,
                  and you were my held breath.

             In the land of the blind—the old witness told me—seeing is subversive. 

        I was writing about people fleeing the fall.
            But on the Matamoros banks,
they murmur this isn’t the spot where their bodies were found,
this lily cross by this river that moves like mud
           a black name on white wooden arms: 
                                Valeria
                      julio 2017 – junio 2019.
           No cross for the siren-swallowed father,
 no cross no name
no birth-death dates, they murmur
            for him who swam with her little body on his back.

                                           Witnessing is a quantum concept.
                       Once seen, the observed and observer are no longer the same.

   Everyone answers that no one knows 
     who first stabbed the cross into the earth’s chest. 
El padre, some joke, merciful God for his lamb-skinned son
            but what a view it must’ve been crucified atop Calvary,
akin to these banks of mud cake and smog light
  for even crosses have to consider real estate. 

No estámos en la frontera, estámos en el limbo
y todos los dias lo mismo, lo mismo, lo mismo.

            And what did I see, my unborn son?
    I saw where they wash their clothes in the mud and green. 
I saw where they sidewalk their schools, their abecedario
y matemáticas into chalk 
     and riverbank dust.
I saw the sidewalk children gnaw their hunger with their smiles,
carving out sand castles from the precipice above the fall. 
I saw where they swim with tadpoles and metamorphs in the shallows 
and drown in the green suck of the unseen undercurrent. 
I saw where they went to watch the tent courts on the US side,
sitting in the ripples’ silent judgment,
and I thought of you, my blue-eyed one,
that birth is the first blind faith.

You know what Matamoros means, right?
Muslim-murderer.
Named after the Spanish patron saint 
of slaughtering Saracens, 
60,000 of them according to legend.
God, great father of all, willed it. 
Praise God.

              Writing to death 
         is not the only way out of Limbo.
            The border water too is a terminus.
      Two minutes, the camp people murmur, 
to underneath the water’s warped image
of immigration courts 
of vinyl stretched 
like skin over metal ribs
that never would’ve considered the cross-less 
unnamed father and his 
toddler daughter slung under his wet, stretched shirt
     like a cold stone 
           freshly pulled from the river.

Please don’t speak Spanish to me.
I grew up across the border in Dallas,
have lived in Texas since I was eight months old,
and just last week they deported me. 

          I wanted to father this book
about the detention-deportation machinery
   of America,
about the teeth that grind us up
    about your great grandfather who was a chewed-up immigrant
Jew, Holocaust survivor, gambler, 
      Kafkaesque cockroach, 
brutally honest liar,
who earnestly believed 
that the milkmen in America
walked on gold sidewalks.
      The book was supposed to change like water.
Instead it changed me                         as you are changing me.

The wife of the most powerful man in the world 
           visited the camp on Sunday, walked across the Gateway International Bridge
to meet with asylum seekers and said, 
    “I witnessed both the cruelty of our policy and the grace of acts of kindness.”
                                                    And then her husband, father of four, deported 100,000 more.

                 When I write now I imagine you there
on the rusted merry-go-round.
You don’t yet know your name,
           Jonah,
Hebrew for dove or pigeon or whale-swallowed,
           eight months there,
little pink salamander inside my love’s body
         swimming in the inner glow.
    We have discussed a water birth,
that your lungs are already filled with fluid,
     that air
will remain unknown until 
you come out in the blood crash, 
until we lift you like a smooth stone
out of the water so you can discover
           this alchemy we call 
                     breathing. 

           And this is the part where we feel our privilege.      
Where we feel really bad.

     Crossing back over
that bridge ribbed with chain-link,
how to tell you what I saw, Jonah?
    How to describe that line of international flesh?
How to tell you about the woman pushing the charred stroller,
            the little girl holding her grandmother’s leathery hand,
the charity of American brands tight on their bodies
    all suspended over water,
          potable                            swimmable                              drownable.
How to tell you, Dove, that we walked past all of them,
       that it costs three quarters to cross over to Mexico, 
            but only one to reenter Uncle Sam Land
            (that the cheese is always sweetest in the trap),
        that your great grandfather never wrote a word
about what happened to him and his brother,
   barely spoke of his sister
who touched the tip of an electrified wire
   somewhere in the Eastern European snow,
       that the survivors did not survive.
   I want to write the world
    is abloom, Love, because it is.
I want to write that on our first date
your mother brought a double rainbow
   laced through the dark pub sky.
She later told me she thought I brought the rainbows.
                      Now neither of us knows.
         I want to tell you that for five days I crossed over 
    borders                           bridges                         channels
                   and I can still hear the murmurs
       of the souls on the bridge who spoke of what 
they will do when they get to Colorado or Alabama 
or San Antonio or Philadelphia or New York,
 how they’ll be living the dream then,
       asleep a sleep 
                          a deep       sleep…

                                                                                                 A Honduran friend
                                 who got his family across to California said: Cuando bañamos 
en el río bravo fueron los años más difíciles
esperando asilo politico
           esperando una vida nueva.

     When I started this,
out of all my imaginations
I never saw you, Love.
When I wrote about these fathers and mothers of exiles
I never imagined your mother
there reading in the living room,
waiting for me to finish.
 I’ve gathered now
  all the breath inside the pauses
all the white space behind the words,
but what to say, Jonah,
other than it will be far too much,
other than I am nothing but a writer,
           nothing but water,
that we ripple with what’s thrown inside.
What to say 
other than I am the one waiting now,
    waiting for you to be washed into this world
and take your first breath,
waiting to hear 
        Jonah
  the magic
    of your voice.

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Photo credit: Allan Mestel

Jeff Dingler is an Atlanta-based writer. A graduate of Skidmore College with an MFA in creative writing from Hollins University, Dingler has written for New York Magazine, Washington Post, Salmagundi, Newsweek, and The Hollins Critic, and Two Hawks Quarterly. He’s currently at work on his first novel, Mother of Exiles, named runner-up in The Writers College’s 2021 Global Novel Writing Competition.